Will a bullet, even a high-velocity round, go through glass without significant deflection? Let's say you're shooting at the windshield of a Big Rig, where the windshield is basically vertical. The bullet went right through all of them, no deflection. 2 - Bullet construction. Yet if a (high-velocity?) Extreme amounts of deflection can lead to distortion. Just a theory. There are several very sketchy reports that a bullet might have passed through the windshield and hit JFK in the throat area and that this windshield evidence was covered up. Another consequence of shooting through glass is deflection of the bullet, which must be considered in both directions - the range of the muzzle from the glass and the subsequent distance of the target from the glass. The Need for Bullet Deflection Training for Field Investigators. When shooting through a windshield from the inside aim low as the deflection is generally 3-6 inches and upwards. It is alot like shooting pool. The sharpshooter was 200+ yards away, shot through the windshield and hit the manikin in the neck, providing demonstrated Learn how to counteract the effects on bullet flight and performance made by shooting through automotive glass. It is important to remember that only a worst-case lethal-force issue should drive you to it. While muzzle velocity is important, I would think that mass would play an even bigger role meaning that a 147g round would probably tend to stay on course better than a 115g round, even if the MV is lower. Demonstration of how a bullet's trajectory is changed when fired through the windshield of a vehicle The sharpshooter was 200+ yards away, shot through the windshield and hit the manikin in the neck, providing demonstrated YouTube videos can easily be found instructing viewers to engage an assailant by shooting through their own windshield. Lessons learned: Shooting through the windshield of a vehicle is not the ideal way to engage a threat while you are in a vehicle. Now let's say you're sh. A bullet fired at a sheet of bullet-resistant glass will pierce the outer layer of glass but the layered polycarbonate material will absorb the bullets energy and stop it before it exits the final layer. That is the scope of the current study. Like Casey I can't recall where I read about the deflection test.. I have conducted a test shot through the windshield of a full sized stationwagon with a manikin in the far back seat. When shooting through glass there are many mitigating factors, with the main factors being: 1 - The angle of firing. Through a process of lamination, a polycarbonate material is layered between sheets of glass which are then bonded together. Most of the experience that I have dealing with this is in regard to precision rifle shooting through glass (.223 and .308) and, unless the angles are extreme, the deflection is usually less than people expect. Different types of glass and bullet combinations (thickness, strength, surface area, shape, etc) will cause the effects to vary, of course. This is what causes deflection. Therefore, bullet deflection might be more erratic after perforating objects at shorter muzzle‐to‐target distances than at longer muzzle‐to‐target distances. The deviation of bullets passing through window pane glass of a thickness of 6. mm was investigated for varying angles of incidence.. angle through glass where the hostage is only inches away from the intended target. While these rules of thumb can be handy, they sure aren't accurate. I can tell from experience that hitting glass changes the bullet course alot..a 5.56 shot from the inside of a car through the front window at a target standing a mere 2 meters in front of a car will not hit the target, that much is the deflection..youll need 2 5.56 rounds through the same hole to hit it.. 16. level 2. With my Ruger Scout Rifle supported on a bipod, I fired five-shot groups through a 38-yard-wide screen of red-willow saplings about the diameter of my pinkie, using both soft-point hunting bullets and hollowpoint match ammunition in two different classes of caliber: .308 Win. Also, when you compare the bullet patterns on the targets between the standard 9mm rounds and the G9 rounds, you can see that there is a lot more deflection with the standard 9mm round. Therefore, The International Building Code (IBC) has established deflection limit standards for glass wall systems. The "single. I will soon do the video I originally wanted to do, showing deflection from both . reflection, and scattering characteristics through tempered glass, plasterboard, plywood, plastic tile, and aluminum plate in . Steel belted tires are no match for .223 rounds either. Actually, all the barrier-penetrating rounds covered in Chapter 5 offer glass-penetrating capability, especially the military ball rounds. The deflection of the bullet by the glass decreases the accfiracy of fire. Bullet deflection through vehicle glass. bullet theory" is just what it says it is. And, yes, it involves a lot of real world trigger time to practice. Emilio_Lizardo January 10, 2006, 2:06pm #1. The biggest factor in taking a shot through glass is the angle of obliquity, or basically, how perpendicular the bullet is to the glass. Going into a vehicle, the "bottom" of the bullet will make contact with the bottom of the glass first. deflection of the bullet as it passed through the windshield. Several months ago, I got a chance to test a bullet from a company I had never heard of, named G9. G9 Bullets vs. Windshield Glass. Off hand through a "thin spot" and broke shoulders to dump him immediately. Just wondering how a round like Hornady's critical defense rounds would change the deflection in either direction , up or down. I can attest to the method and it working. When firing into a car through the windshield at an identified threat, aim high as the bullet will be deflected down roughly 4 inches between the windshield and the target. Important match, bullet will deflect into no shoot target off of a blade of grass or random flying insect. General Gun Discussion. Deflection of bullet by glass. I'm sure you've seen some videos where cool guys with beards are telling you that bullets always do this, or always do that, when shot through glass. He suggests using at least a .308 to improve penetration and shooting perpendicular to the surface of the glass. deflection from where the shooter said he was aiming. Call it Neal's 1st Law of Deflection, something Hatcher did not put in his notebook. Conversely, when shooting into a vehicle through the windshield, the bullet will go down and strike low. "This will improve the accuracy of our crime scene shooting reconstruction," Wilgus said. These can be conveniently illustrated by the following table (Table 4.6): and .223 Rem. Shooting a bullet through glass isn't as simple as you might think. I am myself a shooter, and here is how I would go about measuring the bullet deflection off concrete: At a suitable shooting range set up a target a distance h I from the side of a concrete wall such that a shot fired through the target will contact the wall a distance d I downrange from the target. But, there is something I would like to add. Bullet Deflection off Tissue and Small Bones Author: Tara Owens Introduction When investigating a scene and trying to determine trajectory, it is important to remember the possibility of bullet deflection. A smaller fragment would be more prone to deflection, a larger one, or whole bullet would not be as susceptible. It will go through the first 3/8″ surface but not the second 3/8″ surface. Can a sniper shoot accurately through a glass window? "This will improve the accuracy of our crime scene shooting reconstruction," Wilgus said. 5.11 Ambassador Kyle Lamb of Viking Tactics demonstr. Off hand through a "thin spot" and broke shoulders to dump him immediately. At any angle greater than 15 degrees the bullet will generally start to yaw and be deflected. Then we will replace the dowels and shoot through them and see if it moves the point of impact on the cardboard. Projectile Path Reconstruction Page 1 of 7 Adopted 9-22-04 Revised 9-18-12 2.1.8 Ricochet, Ricochet angle 2.1.9 Trajectory 3.0 Equipment Proper equipment should be used and checked for Shooting from inside deflects the bullet upwards. Heard, unpublished work) with various calibres of weapon fired at laminated windscreen glass held at varying angles has indicated that there is very little deviation of the bullet from its intended path. Previous First, we will try the .223 from an AR15. I then marked the place the bullet hit on the cardboard and covered it with a orange dot. Based on this limited experience, I would suggest that bullet deflection after passing through glass is VERY unpredictable. If marksman teams cannot be deployed in a manner where they can provide selective firepower through a window, without the threat of bullet deflection, the marksman must know how glass at an angle affects bullet trajectory. My brush-deflection test was designed to mimic, as closely as I could, real-world hunting conditions. bullet had hit the car windshield from the front, it most likely would have shattered it or damaged it severely…and well prior to the fatal . 9mm will penetrate, but fragment early and result in more shallow wounds. There was no. The reason given was the same as with the 357, the 30-06 . There is no bullet that "bucks brush" with any reliability. The actual bullet path will never match the visible path. Not important match, bullet will slam through a blade of grass, a tree, windshield and a rock to hit the target in the middle of the A zone. Bullets fired through a sloped windshield might take a wildly different trajectory. In virtually all of the cases, the terminal ballistic performance of the .223/5.56 was significantly reduced, because so much energy was used to penetrate the glass. . I thought that this was due to lack of kinetic energy but I was told that the bullet is imparted with too much spin to allow it to go through the glass. A little bit of angle makes a big difference in direction. Projectiles of calibre 0.22 and 0.38 (wadcutter) were used. The amount of deflection can vary from slight to wildly off-course. Which means the bullet will travel parallel to the ground (and hood)and it will strike the glass at 30 degree angle in relation to the glass. As stated by Haag and Haag (2011) [3], "Common pistol bullets fired into typical automotive windshields from positions in front of the vehicle frequently show consistent downward deflection of 1 ° There really was not much energy left behind. I originally wanted to make a video showing the counterintuitive deflection of a bullet through a windshield, but I decided to grab a partially used gel block on the way out the door. Glass deflection is the amount that a piece of glass bends, or flexes, at its center point when a force, such as wind load or snow load, is applied. Any time you shoot through glass, you run the risk of your bullet being deflected, diverted or it's course changed. I'm glad I did. Shooting through glass is a dicey proposition at best. 6. (Note: The words deflection or deviation, are used here to include both direction and range errors.) A bigger buck was also in a swamp at 300 yards;same type swamp grass(the stuff is about like wheat). Light refraction and bullet deflection are genuine ballistic issues. Although further research is suggested, this study provides a comparison to the results of similar studies on bullet deflection through tempered glass. Firing from inside a vehicle through a windshield. I have conducted a test shot through the windshield of a full sized stationwagon with a manikin in the far back seat. The 0.22 bullets break into multiple pieces, resulting in a large distribution of exit angles. A bigger buck was also in a swamp at 300 yards;same type swamp grass(the stuff is about like wheat). I recently reviewed a book on ballistics and the author put it best saying that sometimes the bullet passed through light obstacles without too much deflection, but there is no reliability in the practice and it should be avoided. No sign of deflection and the bullet (130 Partition) exited. Understanding the deflection of bullets through single and double pane glass will help investigators trace back the initial path of the bullet. This study shows the probability of bullet deflection through small bones, such as ribs, and soft tissue in the human body. windshield and hit the manikin in the neck, providing demonstrated. The FBI test protocol runs through a full cycle of eight test events. The heavier bullet loses less velocity and retains more weight, resulting in less deflection and maintaining more penetration once through the glass. proof that JFK's neck wound came from the front. Shooting out from inside, the bullet will go high because of this effect. Factual Questions. If a person were to shoot through a windshield at a target 10-15 yards away (as in shooting from inside a car), the result would be a drastic reduction in accuracy. G9 has a completely different outlook of how a bullet is made, what they call an . Since the deflection only happens when firing through the windshield glass, firing repeatedly from the same hole will remove the glass from the way of following rounds, meaning that you can hit your point of aim. Today in training I shot a Glock 42 .380 with range ammo (not sure what it was) Happy to report it went right through the front windshield of a car from about 10 feet away. The ammunition is then tested for velocity and accuracy. I don't recall if it's a "long bullet' thing or not; I think is construction related. Equipment such as Battle Belts, Load Bearing Vests, Bullet Proof Vests, Plate Carriers all hinder our movement in and around vehicles. This should go a long way in substantiating G9's straight through glass claim. . Due to their length long guns present their own set of challenges when used in and around vehicles. Aside from deflection (he later is able to fire out his open side window), accuracy when firing from one moving . He notes that on angled shots the bullet tends to curve more sharply in the angle it was travelling, not deflect. I was also told that a 30-30 will not deflect as much as a 30-06 will when they strike a twig. I shot at a whitetail once and clipped an unseen tree limb. The amount of deflection can vary from slight to wildly off-course. Myself and another of my officers were involved in a pursuit and FOIS on Jan 26th 2009. The ammunition is then tested for velocity and accuracy. This factor is of practical in-terest to the police officer. Don't be right up on the cover since bullet deflection can take you out. Today's windshield glass is tough stuff and a bullet loses a lot of energy when punching through even if you are only 5 to 10 feet away when you shoot. Take a look again at the image of the curb strike from the article. Originally Posted by sawbuck I believe bullet length may be the dominant factor in the amount of upset likely to be incurred. This is where it will hit with no bullet deflection. The farther you are off of a 90* hit the angle of deflection grows in larger increaments. I have heard that if you fire a 357 at the front window of a car it will not penetrate it. Each event is designed to test a HP bullet by shooting the ammo through intermediate barriers such as drywall, steel, and auto glass before penetrating ballistic gelatin. Don't think I got deflection because it looked clear to the target from where I was. RELATED STORY: Threat Anatomy: 6 Examples of How Bullet Placement Can Stop Danger good to know. Note that I'm shooting from the outside of the windshield in just because it is easier to set up for a gel test. A bullet fired from outside the vehicle into the windshield will encounter more drag on the lower part of the bullet as it rips through the windshield into the interior of the car. .40 also fragments and is . So much ignorance in this sub about deflection and light refraction. 7.62 x 39 is another nasty round that will do the same. Shots that can be taken at an angle of obliquity less than 15 degrees are preferred. The Forex bullet is precision-machined on a CNC lathe and incorporates a hollowed base to ensure it flies nose-heavy to reduce deflection when it hits glass. The FBI test protocol runs through a full cycle of eight test events. In testing done at the CHP Academy, bullet deflection through auto windshields with .40 S&W and .45 ACP JHP bullets appeared to be random in magnitude and direction and generally caused less than 2 degrees of deflection when fired at auto glass with an angle of incidence of between 34 and 90 degrees. When shooting through a windshield from outside aim high as the deflection is generally 2-3 inches and downward. It would still be possible to hit a man - sized target, in my opinion, but it would be a challenge. Thus the downward deflection will cause the bullet to strike the intended target a few inches low. Shooting into the windshield from outside of a vehicle causes the bullet to deflect downward. As for the deflection issue, I have done several well documented experiments, as well as multiple less intense studies at my shooting recon classes involving deflection, and for handgun bullets going into the glass at the common windshield angles, downward deflection on the order of 1 to 10 degrees is common. Most importantly, though, you need to practice the art of shooting through glass. Jump to Latest Follow tiveness of the bullet. Bullet deflection after interacting with a surface must also be considered. However, penetration through a windshield significantly deforms a bullet. Based on the evidence presented, bullet deflection through laminated glass does not appear to significantly affect the calculated location of the shooter. Don't think I got deflection because it looked clear to the target from where I was. This was not a small fragment as indicated by the size of the pen versus the indentation in the curb. (c) Deflection of the Bullet. I often fill old tires with dirt and the round will go through the tread, through the dirt and out the other side of the tire. very interesting about the angle of deflection. The reason that this matters to concealed carriers is that both the toughness of the glass and angular surfaces means that the chances are good that that the path of the bullet will be deflected as a result of passing through the glass. The sharpshooter was 200+ yards away, shot through the. Dr. A series of tests (B.J. Now he runs Guerilla Approach to help train operators in practical, real-world tactics. The angle of the windshield in relation to the shooter on the ground, 2. Try shooting down through water. Whether and to what extent muzzle instability has an influence on bullet deflection has not yet been studied. Shooting Through Glass. Now the factors that determine if the bullet will go through the windshield or be deflected upward are as follows: 1. I shot out through the passenger window with no deflection and my other officer was shooting through the windshield from behind with no noticable alteration of bullet path for either of us. Don't crowd the cover even though that might seem like the right thing to do. For a sniper, law-enforcement officer, or special-operations agent, this factor is of important practical interest. No sign of deflection and the bullet (130 Partition) exited. The driver should wear eye pro as there will be some flying debris or spalling. Test ammunition was the Remington .40 S&W 180gr JHP (the California Highway Patrol issue load at the time) and the Winchester Ranger .45 ACP 230gr JHP (the law-enforcement version of the discontinued Black Talon). The US Army experimented on corpses during the civil war and found out that any bullet that won't penetrate at least 1 inch of soft pine can't make a lethal wound. I was watching a cheesy 80s TV show last night, and in one scene a sniper shoots from a roof at a target inside of a building, through a . Therefore, your point of aim must be higher. observed a bullet hole in the front windshield of the limo outside the Parkland ER entrance. Like most of you, I have been to the dance several times with the latest and greatest, and the alleged magic often comes up short. On pages 201-202 of The Ultimate Sniper Major John Plaster addresses shooting through glass. Answer (1 of 3): Mr. Tell below wrote a great answer to your based on personal experience, training, and the laws of physics. The reason that this matters to concealed carriers is that both the toughness of the glass and angular surfaces means that the chances are good that that the path of the bullet will be deflected as a result of passing through the glass. Aaron Barruga: How Police Can Fine-Tune Car Shooting Tactics Aaron Barruga is a Special Forces veteran who served in Iraq, Afghanistan and other parts of the world. Each event is designed to test a HP bullet by shooting the ammo through intermediate barriers such as drywall, steel, and auto glass before penetrating ballistic gelatin. used to accentuate any bullet deflection from glass impact and thereby reduce deflection measurement errors. Even a head shot wasn't enough after going through a windshield in at least two incidents. There's a difference between shooting through flat glass and the curved glass of a vehicle's windshield. Bullet had a little bit of deflection and rise from not matching the angle of the windshield but it wasnt much maybe a couple inches. observed a bullet hole in the front windshield of the limo outside the Parkland ER entrance. Strike the intended target a few inches low this was not a small fragment as indicated by the size the! 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