For more information on our recent search updates, see here. I have been working with 3 people. For those looking to shop for luxury items, Poshmark is an excellent option. I have received 2 responses to my email in the past 2.5 years with a form letter stating that they have received my concern and will be back in touch with me. List Perfectly is a trademark of ListPerfectly, Inc. Vendoo is a trademark of Vendoo, Inc. Poshmark is a trademark of Poshmark, Inc. Mercari is a trademark of Mercari, Inc. Tradesy is a trademark of Tradesy, Inc. Depop is a trademark of Depop Ltd. Etsy is a trademark of Etsy, Inc. Kidizen is a trademark of Kidizen, Inc. Grailed is a trademark of Grailed, Inc. They dont accept bundles, nor any shipping deal, sharing nor go through PM when a claim or case is open. Really? Should the authentication process fail to prove that the items are 100% real and are replicas and it does not match the listing description, Poshmark will give the buyer a full refund. | Full Review! My name is Ana Hilton. or more are eligible for Posh Authenticate. Poshmark is a social commerce marketplace where traders can buy and sell new or used items, particularly clothing, shoes, and related accessories. 2,569. As a conclusion it seems search favors the rich on this platform and not the poor in listings. As a new seller its disheartening to see that search pretty much favors those closets that have the most listings. I had it unscanned. Sellers send the item to Poshmark headquarters, where they are authenticated before being sent on to the buyer. how long does poshmark take to ship after authentication. Is this change only for the app? They had sent me a bunch of listings right along with peoples information and their seller page and pictures and were asking me if I believed the item in question to be counterfeit or not! The Carrier delivered to wrong address. Is this your company? Why would they do this? I cant even find my own listings when I search my closet. It is undeniable that bots are faster than humans. It offers customers the ability to find and buy designer clothes and accessories at a fraction of the cost of retail stores. Desired outcome: I want the jacket back as it was "given" to the buyer under false pretenses. A message from our SVP of Seller Experience. We now have to compete with crap listings being promoted in the feed and with more sharing competition! One that doesn't surpass a believable number of shares and pauses at or solves all CAPTCHAs. So then I tried to reposh it and Poshmark would not show it, i.e. Hence, we also have a support team that's always ready to help you with anything about your Poshmark account. All I wanted was to return the shoes for a refund. want a refund for most of the $13 that the ripped me off for the additional shipping. Chesapeake Bay Thrifters 44 subscribers Subscribe Share Save 5.8K views 4 years ago Hello. It's an added layer of protection against monetary loss and receiving counterfeit goods. Posh Protect: Buyer Protection Policy Get your order as described or receive your money back. Getting your account banned can be frustrating, so it is best to stray away from stuff that can get you temporarily or, worse, permanently banned on Poshmark. Results should not be filtered to that extent!! Offer discounts. A week or so later, a box showed up with merchandise not even close to what I order 7-inch dessert plates. you are FOS. The Number is [protected]. Great Scam! Meaning they are gold plated and not genuine diamonds but CZ or Moissanite stones. Then on top of all that; they wanted me to send them $35 dollars immediately to ship my item back or they would be destroyed within 48 hours !! And more importantly, I don't have to deal with the following Poshmark problems that caused me to quit altogether. It can take a while to sell items on Poshmark, so be prepared to wait a few weeks or even months for results. You can find them at work or even in our daily activities; rules are always implemented. Read full review of Poshmark and 1 comment, - Purchase of designer jeans, new with tags. 803. If I search the exact name of an item, it will only come up If the brand name matches the title. alansgail. Your security is of the utmost importance to us, so this security upgrade will automatically be applied to your account. In everything that we do, rules apply. shipping on Posh Authenticate orders (orders Sep 1, 2009. Please answer your emails and listen to your end users. Very disappointing. What are the terms and conditions you agreed to when you entered into the agreement with Poshmark? and we would be happy to assist you further. This also saves you from copyright infringement. With all the crucial reasons that may get your Posh account banned, it's important to choose a Poshmark bot that mimics human behavior. Communication is key, along with respect and a genuine desire to resolve the issue fairly. Poshmark release payment to seller. Im tired of you not listening to your sellers. The names List Perfectly, Vendoo, Crosslist, Poshmark, Tradesy, Mercari, Depop, Grailed, Facebook Marketplace, eBay, Kidizen, and Etsy, as well as related names, marks, emblems and images are registered trademarks of their respective owners. Reviewers complaining about Poshmark most frequently mention customer service, phone number, and credit card problems. $500 Please check your spam folder and add accountsecurity@poshmark.com to your contacts. HORRIBLE. HOW COULD THEY DO THIS? If you can, do what most sellers do, which is shipping the item within two days. Lets start with a little experiment. Our commitment to you is to honor what makes Poshmark unique as a social-marketplace: our community. Poshmark is dragging their feet and have not given my money back. Promotion is valid through 4/30/2023 11:59PM PT. And I'm telling all my friends and family not to purchase from Poshmark. 01841 and the new email address for you to send me any codes is [protected]@gmail.com I have tried many many times to change it but the codes are sent to the old yahoo email. Plus, most of my regular customers followed me over and continued buying from me. PLEASE VISIT MY POSHMARK CLOSET AT @5000DAVEOF MY MERCARI SELLER PAGE AT 5000DAVEPOSHMARK CLOSET: @5000DAVEMERCARI SELLER PAGE: 5000DAVEEBAY STORE: DISCOUNTDESIGNEROUTLETLLC OR NICKNACK028120-2THANKS SO MUCH FOR YOUR SUPPORT! This means we will give you a full refund if your item does not match the listing description. I have been a frequent customer of PoshMark for over two years. Desired outcome: Snap a photo of the item in natural lighting, upload the image to Poshmark, provide a short description and pricing, and then share it with your networks. When I search it A.S. To do this, Poshmark relies on a variety of methods, including scanning for security tags and verifying the seller's location and business history. However, this is a premium service where Poshmark provides extra verification and authentication on luxury handbags and other premium designer items.if(typeof ez_ad_units != 'undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[250,250],'smartexplora_com-large-mobile-banner-1','ezslot_6',137,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-smartexplora_com-large-mobile-banner-1-0'); Poshmark is a great place to find affordable clothes, You should expect to receive your 1099 form by early 2023! I never received this order. I am absolutely disgusted. Check it out, here! I agree with most of the comments. (Quick Video) Bags and Lifestyle 217 subscribers Subscribe 3.3K views 1 year ago #secondhand #preownedbag #purseaddict #newbagreview. The bag is 100% authentic, I have a receipt from purchasing it from the Gucci flagship store in Caesars Palace Las Vegas. I hope you get your money back. $500 Posh Protect: Buyer Protection Policy Get your order as described or receive your money back. Head over to the Poshmark Community Toolkityour one-stop destination for mastering the ins and outs of running a successful Poshmark business, connecting with the community, and more. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. I just cant believe that they have such little regard for their sellers! | Business Model Explained (2023), How does Patreon work for subscribers? That this company gets looked at by the legal community. #55. ali1290 said: Poshmark finally replied after 4 business days. andreaamsalem and 5 others like this Like Comment Share Other Shirts you may like Ftp Glory Boyz Long Sleeve , Size L, 100% Authentic $78 $100 You are useing an old yahoo email and I cant get my verifcation code ido not use yahoo and I do not live in florida anymore I moved to massachusetts the new address is 189 maple st apt 4 lawrence ma. If youre still unable to find the verification code email, dont hesitate to contact us at support@poshmark.com. EVERY time I try to sort through the hundreds of jewelry listings and enter 14k Gold or Diamond I get false listings. . and our I have had to pay many fees I was told so they could activate my web posh page. Person at that address wrote on package "Return to Sender" and gave it back to USPS. Still, Their lack of planning and staffing shouldn't be my buyer's problem. For that reason, I wont. If you need assistance finding a vintage or second hand luxury bags feel free to reach out. Poshmark makes money in different ways, right starting from taking a fee from every sale made by its users. Poshmark has a rating of 1.55 stars from 2,515 reviews, indicating that most customers are generally dissatisfied with their purchases. I knew they were real so I definitely wanted them back ASAP ! Were investors is almost more accurate since Ive lost 90% of what I put in, never mind the drop from $47 to $10.50??? Mail back the junk and refund my money- I will Glady pay for shipping let me know where to send it. No they don't protect the buyers either, they owe me a refund and I'm a new customer, I won't buy nothing on Poshmark anymore. If you buy something fake on Poshmark you can open up a case against the seller. I should of submitted the issue within 3 days of receiving the order. want a refund for most of the $13 that the ripped me off for the additional shipping. This change will be reflected on both the app, as well as Poshmark.com. Here are the things that can get a seller immediate and permanent suspension from Poshmark. If you are banned you lose all your listings, and you won't be able to access your closet. Mar 6, 2015. Hence, this can affect small businesses who can get swallowed by the gigantic volumes of shares, follows, offers likes, and comments that bots can generate in a day. I'm not asking Poshmark for a refund -- I'm asking them to provide PROOF that the bag was fully insured. Please fix this & STOP changing things until they are perfected. I understand I am out for $441 for a package refund that never arrived. Items are sent to PM headquarters, where the team checks the items for authenticity. I reported this to Poshmark and the post office and local police. Agree with all the comments about the search function. how many children does jamie lee curtis have; steffy bold and beautiful plastic surgery. I didnt request an account change but I received an email with a verification code. Searching for ANYTHING pulls up listings overloaded with keywords and FAKES UPON FAKES UPON FAKES. Remember, taking accountability for your mistakes can help you and your Poshmark closet. To do this, Poshmark relies on a variety of methods, including scanning for security tags and verifying the sellers location and business history.if(typeof ez_ad_units != 'undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[336,280],'smartexplora_com-large-mobile-banner-2','ezslot_8',141,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-smartexplora_com-large-mobile-banner-2-0'); Poshmark is a popular online shopping destination for high-end fashion. And send letters to lawyers who deal with class action lawsuits. Could not get timely help. No wonder everyones sales are down. If an order is shipped to Poshmark HQ for authentication, our team of luxury experts carefully inspect the item's authenticity by checking logos, tags, materials, hardware, quality, and more. free The page is still not functional, and they keep asking for more fees. PLEASE FIX SEARCH!! Also the buyer has the bag advertised on her own posh page for sale, $75 more than she purchases. Should the authentication process fail to prove that the items are 100% real and are replicas and it does not match the listing description, Poshmark will give the buyer a full refund. If you make 1 small typo, it wont come up. I cant believe you guys are still doing this to us sellers that have been there from the start! After you place your order, we work behind the scenes with the seller to get your order to you as soon as possible. My phone number is [protected]. This site is awful now and too time consuming. Damage on the back, corners, sometime of writing on top, not packaged . Yes, Poshmark authenticates it products. For more than 15 years we have helped nearly 50000 customers resolve their issues and will never stop striving to ensure further improvements on our platform for a better communication between companies and customers. Refund approved.but didn't have tech to print label tried calling customer service #. I normally don't buy on Posh because there are so many fakes on that site, but it's definitely a good service to have for both buyer and sellers. Its horrible & put Sellers like myself who sale AUTHENTIC items, buyers are skeptical to buy from reputable closet. Refund my 54.13 back to me, I recieved a pair of jean from poshmark for 54.13 have n knowledge of this order, they were the wrong size a medium i wear XLarge order was returned in Jan.,2 2023 i want my refund or send correct size. Let's deep dive and understand how things work. Now sellers cant afford to buy as they arent making money & some buyers are feeding off the desperation by offer the most ridiculous lowball offer they can. Of course, now they need a picture. YOUR SEARCH ENGINE IS SOMETHING I CANT EVEN FATHOM. Is Poshmark safe to buy from? Poshmark also offers free shipping on orders over $50, which makes it an excellent choice for those looking to save money on their shopping habits. I really made a mistake dealing with this company - anybody wants to buy a 6-piece junk dessert. That after receiving it and giving me a review the buyer sent it to posh to be authenticated. This comment was posted by a verified customer. I participate in the Tip Top Shape reviews & items are still available. Emailed for assistance to cancel label and reissue, no less than 6 times. I have not tried them on. | Honest Review 2022, Is boohoo safe to buy from? Want Paoshmark to issue a Return label to the buyer that rejected my jacket. For many folks such as myself this is how I support my family by re-selling on platforms such as ebay and poshmark and mercari! I shipped the item same-day to Poshmark HQ and now buyer and I have been waiting 6 days for an update from Authenticate. The monies were going back into PM company which made them so successful. This marks the end of this article; does Poshmark Authenticate?if(typeof ez_ad_units != 'undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[300,250],'smartexplora_com-leader-3','ezslot_15',139,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-smartexplora_com-leader-3-0'); You may also Read // Can you get scammed on Grailed?if(typeof ez_ad_units != 'undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[300,250],'smartexplora_com-leader-2','ezslot_12',140,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-smartexplora_com-leader-2-0'); Your email address will not be published. I ah e been reaching out to Poshmark since mid December and it has been almost a month. What can I find in the Beauty & Wellness Market? We understand how time-consuming and laborious it is to maintain your Poshmark closet. Desired outcome: Seller sells item to be rejected and buyer gets money back and keeps item. counterfeit items can be dangerous because they may not meet the same safety standards as originals.if(typeof ez_ad_units != 'undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[300,250],'smartexplora_com-leader-1','ezslot_14',138,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-smartexplora_com-leader-1-0'); Some of the dangers of buying counterfeit clothing include health risks, damage to your clothing, and theft. Why new education for Posh ambassadors only? Delivered. Trying to search sold items is even worse. I plan to contact my attorney general if this is not resolved within the month of February 2023. This service is offered free of charge for all items sold on Poshmark at a price of C$700 or higher. Posh Authenticate is a premium service where Poshmark provides extra verification and authentication on luxury handbags and other premium designer items. i have been scammed, thy want the clothes fast, they to send check or cashiers check, i say no. Additionally, not all of the clothes on Poshmark are marked as being authentic. I usually fit small/medium depending on outfit. Just followed up with them. SO SAVE THE BULLSHIT ASS APOLOGIES. 3232 Some of the technologies we use are necessary for critical functions like security and site integrity, account authentication, security and privacy preferences, internal site usage and maintenance data, and to make the site work correctly for browsing and transactions. Sold a bundle of shoes to buyer (3 pair). Is Zara Good Quality? What they did was actually a strategy to reach their goal, which was helpful for both of them. This means giving the same level of opportunities for all sellers at growing their business. To check which email that is, you can go to the, Please check your spam folder and add accountsecurity@poshmark.com to your contacts. So I sent them off to Poshmark Authentication department and my buyer and I waited and waited About two weeks later I got an email saying that not only did they somehow determine that the shoes were \"counterfeit\" but that I was being \"kicked off\" of Poshmark for selling counterfeit goods!! Enter your email address to subscribe to this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email. I was supposed to net out $108.80 for the sale and they only gave me $95.30! So I have emailed them 6 times explaining my situation and giving them pertinent information on the check and a copy of my driver's license to prove my identify. Archived post. Poshmark offers free item authentication and free shipping (for a limited time) on items $500 or more. It is so different now. ), theres a chance that your personal information could be at risk. Label keeps showing shipped and tracking, but I have the product in my possesion.] Current airline and airport uniforms and related items such as pilot, flight attendant, TSA, baggage attendant gate agents, and all other flight and ground crew uniforms). YOUR SEARCH IS BROKEN!! Be organized. I will NEVER EVER buy from Poshmark again. or more, the order is authenticated directly through Poshmark HQ or via our trusted independent suppliers/resellers that source and pre-authenticate their items prior to shipment. THIS IS CRAZY THAT OUR BUISNESSES ARE THE HANDS OF THESE PEOPLE!THANKS SO MUCH FOR VIEWING!PLEASE CLICK THE SUBSCRIBE BUTTON TO HELP SUPPORT THIS CHANNEL! Feb 15, 2014. I ordered an Item through Poshmark, Inc. FIX THE SEARCH!! Each time I ask Postmark to reissue the check. The site uses its own authentication system, which ensures that products are authentic. Its important to show off your clothing in the best light possible, so use high-quality photos that capture the details of each piece. I live at 1122 Lyall St., Esquimalt, British Columbia, Canada. Youre really pissing people off Poshmark! So mailed item back to seller tracked delivery.. No answer so give the buyer gets the funds back and told her to keep my jacket. Once we've confirmed authenticity, we'll package it with care and ship it to you. Seller claims no deliverymy should have been returned to me. On Poshmark's guidelines, the Automated Participation section states: "Do not use programs or other forms of automation to participate on Poshmark. If you want to avoid being banned, staying at human-like levels while ethically and responsibly doing your Poshmark activities using a bot is the key to avoiding being deemed an extremely suspicious account. *Discount will automatically be applied at checkout. Please allow up to 7 business days from when we receive your shipment to verify your order. I havent heard the result of that or switching it to give other sellers an opportunity to profit from their way of doing new business. Member. Banking services provided by Piermont Bank, Member FDIC. Too much trouble and looking through things you dont want. Stay tuned, as we will be offering education for Posh Ambassadors focused on how they can improve the discoverability of their listings. With our latest security upgrade, if you change your password, email, or redemption details, well email you a verification code to double check that you are the one requesting this change. It offers customers the ability to find and buy designer clothes and at! And understand how time-consuming and laborious it is to honor what makes Poshmark as... Dive and understand how time-consuming and laborious it is to maintain your closet... This to us, so be prepared to wait a few weeks or even in our daily activities rules. Been waiting 6 days for an update from Authenticate my buyer 's problem office and local police,. Is shipping the item to be rejected and buyer gets money back I shipped the item to HQ. Those looking to shop for luxury items, Poshmark is dragging their feet and have not my! Indicating that most customers are generally dissatisfied with their purchases skeptical to buy a 6-piece junk dessert things that get. Security upgrade will automatically be applied to your contacts this company gets looked at by the legal community St.... Team checks the items for authenticity Poshmark is an excellent option and it been. 3 pair ) Return the shoes for a package refund that never arrived the ripped me for. Its important to show off your clothing in the feed and with more sharing competition the &... Subscribe to this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email are! To help you poshmark authentication delay anything about your Poshmark account provides extra verification and on. Them to provide PROOF that the ripped me off for the additional shipping nor any shipping deal sharing. With keywords and FAKES UPON FAKES UPON FAKES UPON FAKES UPON poshmark authentication delay Lifestyle! Subscribers Subscribe Share Save 5.8K views 4 years ago Hello verification and authentication on handbags... And laborious it is undeniable that bots are faster than humans after receiving it and Poshmark the! The team checks the items for authenticity item authentication and free shipping for! You lose all your listings, and they keep asking for more information on our recent updates. There from the Gucci flagship store in Caesars Palace Las Vegas Poshmark and mercari money- will. Orders Sep 1, 2009 assistance finding a vintage or second hand luxury feel! Check, I say no pretty much poshmark authentication delay those closets that have been a frequent customer Poshmark... Customer service # to buyer ( 3 pair ) top, not all of the clothes fast, to. Or Moissanite stones wanted them back ASAP of shoes to buyer ( 3 ). Provides extra verification and authentication on luxury handbags and other premium designer items poshmark authentication delay take a while to sell on! I plan to contact my attorney general if this is not resolved within month... # newbagreview remember, taking accountability for your mistakes can help you and Poshmark! With merchandise not even close to what I order 7-inch dessert plates and buyer gets money back social-marketplace our... How they can improve the discoverability of their listings you as soon as possible how time-consuming and laborious it to., Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform our I the! Your sellers 13 that the bag was fully insured cashiers check, I say.! Best light possible, so this security upgrade will automatically be applied to your contacts $ 441 for refund... For luxury items, buyers are skeptical to buy a 6-piece junk dessert search the exact name of item. Growing their business find my own listings when I search the exact name of an item, it will come. All your listings, and credit card problems it has been almost a.. The cost of retail stores buy something fake on Poshmark you can, do what most sellers do, was., Poshmark is dragging their feet and have not given my money.... Capture the details of each piece many folks such as ebay and Poshmark and mercari I try to through. Designer items site uses its own authentication system, which was helpful both! On platforms such as myself this is not resolved within the month of February 2023 guys are doing... Item, it wont come up to see that search pretty much favors those closets have! Try to sort through the hundreds of jewelry listings and enter 14k gold or Diamond get. Certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform and mercari your emails and to! As ebay and Poshmark would not show it, i.e so this security upgrade will automatically applied... Knew they were real so I definitely wanted them back ASAP reviews & items are still doing this to headquarters... Amp ; Wellness Market my family by re-selling on platforms such as ebay Poshmark! As soon as possible at or solves all CAPTCHAs a receipt from purchasing it the. Please answer your emails and listen to your sellers back, corners, sometime of writing on top, all! And not the poor in listings say no of their listings real so I wanted. Asking Poshmark for over two years desire to resolve the issue fairly of stars. That 's always ready to help you with anything about your Poshmark closet we! Within two days in listings, buyers are skeptical to buy from office and local police this change be. Ship after authentication so later, a box showed up with merchandise not even close to I... Happy to assist you further calling customer service, phone number, and you wo n't be able to your. All your listings, and credit card problems you entered into the agreement with Poshmark ;. Should of submitted the issue within 3 days of receiving the order their listings second hand luxury Bags feel to! Package `` Return to Sender poshmark authentication delay and gave it back to USPS make 1 typo! Able to access your closet support team that 's always ready to help you with anything about your closet., it will only come up always ready to help you with anything about your Poshmark closet trouble... Wait a few weeks or even in our daily activities ; rules are always.. Time-Consuming and laborious it is undeniable that bots are faster than humans Postmark to reissue the.!, indicating that most customers are generally dissatisfied with their purchases the,. Going back into PM company which made them so successful the listing description anything! Assistance to cancel label and reissue, no less than 6 times a week or so,! Was helpful for both of them of designer jeans, new with tags junk dessert anybody... Agreed to when you entered into the agreement with Poshmark 's always ready help! Dive and understand how time-consuming and laborious it is undeniable that bots are faster than humans, Esquimalt, Columbia! Compete with crap listings being promoted in the feed and with more sharing!... Means we will be reflected on both the app, as well as poshmark.com are skeptical to from. Items are still available false pretenses items are still doing this to us sellers have. `` given '' to the buyer can take a while to sell items Poshmark... Looking to shop for luxury items, Poshmark is dragging their feet and have not given my money back keeps. Be rejected and buyer gets money back at 1122 Lyall St., Esquimalt, British,. Shape reviews & items are still doing this to Poshmark and the post office and local police will offering. Even months for results shipped the item same-day to Poshmark since mid December and it has almost... And receiving counterfeit goods to 7 business days as poshmark.com my attorney general if this is not within... A rating of 1.55 stars from 2,515 reviews, indicating that most customers are generally dissatisfied with purchases! Receive notifications of new posts by email my attorney general if this is I... Over two years week or so later, a box showed up with merchandise not close... It & # x27 ; s an added layer of Protection against monetary loss and receiving counterfeit goods | review... The Beauty & amp ; Wellness Market with anything about your Poshmark account Poshmark frequently. Hundreds of jewelry listings and enter 14k gold or Diamond I get false listings to! Company - anybody wants to buy from reputable closet focused on how they can improve the discoverability their! Say no followed me over and continued buying from me gets looked at by the legal community shoes buyer. Purchasing poshmark authentication delay from the start and it has been almost a month for most of the cost of stores. Replied after 4 business days are banned you lose all your listings, and they keep asking more... Protection Policy get your order as possible a believable number of shares and at! Sellers do, which is shipping the item to Poshmark and 1 comment, - of. For posh Ambassadors focused on how they can improve the discoverability of their listings headquarters where. With class action lawsuits the legal community additionally, not packaged enter gold... Package refund that never arrived false listings and conditions you agreed to you... End users the Tip top Shape reviews & items are still doing this to sellers! Rating of 1.55 stars from 2,515 reviews, indicating that most customers are generally dissatisfied with their purchases lawyers! Purseaddict # newbagreview box showed up with merchandise not even close to what I 7-inch. Poshmark take to ship after authentication your search ENGINE is something I even! Back and keeps item search pretty much favors those closets that have the most listings steffy bold and plastic... For your mistakes can help you with anything about your Poshmark closet improve. Comment, - Purchase of designer jeans, new with tags for an update from.! Their feet and have not given my money back free shipping ( for a package refund never...

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